The Guitar

Rhythm Section Question, Bass, Drums, and Guitar?

I had a pretty simple question about the rhythm section say for a rock band. And say the section consists of drums bass and guitar.
The question is hard to explain say you have a drum beat, how do you know what rhythm pattern for the bass or the guitar to play along to the drum beat?? or you have a bass riff/pattern how do you know what rhythm guitar riff or drum patterns to play to it???
I am not asking for what key, style, or notes to play, i am asking like if the kick is on the 1 and the 3 of the beat and snare on 2 and 4 how would you glue the bass to that and then the rhythm guitar??? Basically so they sound like every other rock song etc.
i heard people talk about triplet feel, shuffle, etc, does that have to do with it??
I know about chords, notes, etc. 4/4, 3/4 timing etc. try to read as many music books as i can and even some composing/arranging books but still no one really hits on this subject, i know its probably a simple answer, its a hard to explain simple question

I am going to try to give you the best simple answers I can.

About bass and drums…
Usually the bass follows the kick drum. So whatever rhythmic pattern the kick drum plays is usually the rhythmic pattern the bass plays. This is what is usually referred to as the groove…. plain and simple. HOWEVER, it does get a little more involved than that.

Sometimes the bass will follow the guitar in rhythm. This is a lot more rare than following the kick, but it does happen. Usually when this happens, it happens during some sort of riff.

Let me give you an excellent example. Take the song “I don’t wanna be” from Gavin Degraw. During the verse, the bass plays along with the guitar. During the chorus, the bass plays with the kick.

So in order to get what you are looking for, the main idea behind the “rock” groove is attitude and feel. If it doesn’t “feel” right, change it up until it does.

About guitar and drums…..
The rhythm guitar has to be one of the most difficult parts to play in a band. ANY rhythm guitarist who plays rhythm well and correctly has WAY more respect in my book than any lead player. This is why: The lead player basically just learns notes. He doesn’t NEED to groove or even make much musical sense. He doesn’t NEED to stay in rhythm. He can take loads of musical “liberties” when he plays. This is because the rhythm section carries the structure of the song…… the lead guitarist DOESN’T. But the rhythm guitarist (when done CORRECTLY) has to find the musical “place” that fits betwwen the bass and drums. So rhythmic structure, cleanliness, and chord structure are ALL paramount to the effective rhythm player. However, the rhythm guitarist can be more involved rhythmically than the bass and usually is.

Let me give you another example: “Something to believe in” by Maroon 5. Listen to the rhythm guitar chunking away. But if you listen closely, it is a very precise part…. it’s NOT just him doing whatever. Notice how in the song the rhythm lays the propulsion while the bass stabs away at just a few notes with the kick. One of the reasons the bass plays so little is to give sonic and rhythmic “space” to the rhythm guitarist. Yes, there is a method to the madness. But it still all boils down to feel. If the rhythm guitarist’s part didn’t “feel” right, he’d have to change it or it would sound like a bag of warm crap.

About beats 1, 2, 3, and 4…
The most important beat for a bass is beat 1. If your drummer is laying down a kickin’ groove and your rhythm player is smoking, you as a bass player can get away with playing one short note note on beat 1. Trust me, this works. Although, you usually play more notes anyway.

For the rhythm guitarist, the most important beat (usually) is beat 2 (or the upbeat). Do this as a simple exercise: have the drummer play a normal 4/4 drum beat. Now have the bass play a short note on beat 1 of every measure. Now have the rhythm guitar play the corresponding chord on beat 2 letting the chord ring out and stopping right before the bass plays his next note. This is the most elemental of true grooves, but it shows with great effectiveness of how they work, the importance of individual beats within the measure, AND created space for instruments to “fit” into.

FINAL ANSWER:
It’s really all about feel. There is no “right” or “wrong” way to play a groove. There IS a right or wrong way to “feel” a groove. Some grooves are very precise and they require listening to each note (like Sweet Home Alabama…. ever wonder why no one ever makes it sound right???) Other grooves (like Honky Tonk Women) are very loose and really only require a good “party state of mind” to pull off.

So if something doesn’t “feel” right, keep messing with it until it does. That’s truly the long and short of it. And the more experience you get, the easier it will be.

Hope that helps,
Jon

BASS CHORD LESSONS – Book/DVD Part 3

Emotive $8.78 Maynard James Keenan is known for venting his personal angst through the abstract metal of his former band Tool and the poisoned art rock of his current outfit A Perfect Circle. On the group’s third full-length release, however, the songwriter drops the high drama and gets blunt: War is bad. Politicians are evil. The world is doomed. To support his case he delivers a handful of politically charged…

George Benson and Al Jarreau – Givin’ It Up $3.99 CD > POPULAR MUSIC > ROCK…

Pretenders $9.50 All products are BRAND NEW and factory sealed. Fast shipping and 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed….

Fender Presents: Getting Started on Acoustic Guitar — A Guide for Beginners $12.94 Over 3 hours long with 50 interactive lessons. Covers tuning, essential chords and scales, music reference, practice tips, rhythm techniques, play-along tracks with a band, 3-D fretboard graphics, instrument care, and more. Includes 5 languages: English, French, Spanish, Japanese, and German. Hosted by Keith Wyatt of the Musicians Institute….

Bass Extremes Live: Steve Bailey & Victor Wooten $13.79 In Bass Extremes, Steve Bailey and Victor Wooten demonstrate how the bass guitar can supply bass lines, piano and guitar-style comping figures, lead solos, and percussion parts, in styles ranging from bebop to new age to heavy metal. Each piece highlights different aspects of their amazing techniques–like Steve’s 3-finger technique or his awe-inspiring command of harmonics and chord voicings, or …

Alfred’s Kid’s Guitar Course, Complete Starter Pack $109.99 Everything You Need to Play Today!. Kid’s Guitar Course. Book, Enhanced CD, DVD & Guita. Published by Alfred Publishing.From Alfred Music Publishing, the worldwide leader in music education products since 1922, comes Alfred’s Kid’s Guitar Starter Pack: Everything You Need to Play Today! This award-winning, best-selling, complete starter pack includes a high-quality 3/4-size Firebrand acoustic guit…

Guitar Pro 6 $36.99 Guitar Pro 6, a Win/Mac hybrid, is the ultimate toolbox for the guitarist! It includes all the tools you need to improve, compose and accompany yourself on the guitar. This simple and intuitive multitrack tablature editor is specifically designed for guitar, bass or other stringed instruments. The ultimate toolbox for the guitarist. Click to enlarge. Al…